Daniel Lesson 2

Introduction

Sure so our goal this morning is to go through Daniel chapter two and for my personal goal is to make sure I don’t trip over these courts. I think if we accomplish those two, we should be in pretty good shape. Um before we begin, we were asked about uh schedule, because I mentioned to somebody that we weren’t just gonna be covering Daniel, but also a couple other books as well. So um the obviously we’ll be starting out going through the book of Daniel. Um and then mid-December, once we get done with Daniel, we’re gonna go through a couple lessons on the inner testament period uh between the testaments. And then we’ll cover the book of Ecclesiastes, which is conveniently also twelve chapters, and then we’ll spend a single lesson on Song Solomon, and then try to give one last uh review of all this.

Before we actually get in chapter two, let’s do a very sort of brief review of chapter one. Um who was taken by Nebuchadnezzar?

Yeah, what was the group that kind of as a whole that was that was taken? 10,000 nobles. Yeah, well I think it was the young nobles, the kings, some of their uh uh some some of the king’s family. And uh what special purpose purpose were some of them taken out? Educate them. Yeah, they’re gonna be educating them, but uh they were gonna specifically serve in some way, they were gonna serve to the king, right? And we discussed this, but and why was that important for these to be trained this way? So that the king couldn’t be aware of he wanted people from the clouds or from that book people that we’ll take that. Yeah, certainly. He’s going to have this empire with this as part of this.

So they can, and it’s both ways learning about them and also to combine the culture in, so to speak. So what did Daniel and these others go to the remote? What did they take exception? What did they have a problem with?

Yeah, they didn’t want to file themselves with food and drink.

1. Nebuchadnezzar’s Dream and the Test

And so they proposed a test, some way they could be tested to show that this worked. What was this test? Ten days of water and uh veggies. Yeah, and vegetables. Yeah. And afterwards, what was the result of that? They were better. Yeah, so they were they’re above all these other ones. Um, it even says that they were better than all these other magicians and others. And this may come into play in our next uh in chapter two. Now, right there at the very beginning, we might have a problem. Look at that first verse and get considered something that we kind of looked at before, but I want to take a moment to look at it again, um, statistically as it relates to this chapter. First verse says, now in the second year of Nebuchadnezzar’s reign, Nebuchadnezzar had dreams, and his spirit was so troubled that his sleep left him.

Now, how many years was the training? Three years. So, how did they have three years of training in the second year of Nebuchadnezzar?

Yeah, exactly. And we talked about this. The first year under the Babylonian system with the way they dated it, and I know it may be 606, depending on who you learned it from or where you use, but 605 BC, the ascension year of Nebuchadnezzar. Apparently I’m going the wrong direction. And then we see the first year of the reign, the second year of his reign. So we could have had three years. Plus, they were actually taken before he had technically had a was uh king. Okay, so as we know from the title of our book there, Nebuchadnezzar had a draining. And what was special about this dream? I’m talking from that uh what this dream try I guess I’m about to answer my own question. This dream we read bothered him in some way.

So much so that we are read his sleep left him. So he called all these people, and um why did he call these people? We know he troubled him, but what was he looking for? Interpretation. Yeah, he was wanting to know what what this uh well getting to have me. I’ll get there in just a moment. Uh so there’s these four groups though that it mentions uh the magicians, the astrologers, the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans. And the magicians were perhaps how we kind of think of them today, um, except that they might have uh been said that these tricks were actually uh supernatural, perhaps whereas today we realize you know there are magicians are performing tricks, but they might have had perhaps some of the same doing some of the same things.

But of course, without knowing the science behind it or whatever, uh might seem something a little more uh more to it. Astrologers, Babylonians, um, from my reading knew quite a bit about astronomy, and so and with their um pagan beliefs, astrology was part of this. And the sorcerers from this verse, we s which kind of relates to the sousairs, which we’ll see in verse 27. And the Chaldeans are wise men, and I’m gonna kind of use the term wise men twice in two ways because um wise men were considered were also used for these groups as a whole. I think we won’t try and use that apparently. Okay. So verse 2 through 11, he tests them. And as you were saying, what what was their uh test?

He was supposed to tell them what the dream was, yeah. They wanted him to tell the green. Yeah. He wanted to look at us. And and with that, what what’s so difficult about that? We can’t do it. Well, yeah, good. If they’re just gonna say the answer is the interpretation, they could make up anything. Yeah, exactly. You say, oh, this, oh, well, this means this, and this means that, yep. And and they could pick whether or not, you know, they could tell them something good, something bad, doesn’t really matter, and you know, maybe Larry, he wouldn’t even notice. Um but it’s interesting. Uh you know, he they tell him, say, tell us the dream in verse 4. And verse 5, my decision is firm. If you don’t make known to me and his interpretation, you shall be cut to pieces, and your houses shall be made an ash heap.

However, if you tell me the dream and its interpretation, you shall receive from me gifts, rewards, and great honor. Therefore, tell me the dream and its interpretation. So does that seem uh kind of on spot a little bit, aren’t they? Um you think that was uh fair for him to put a test like this to these guys?

Well, they were who they claimed to be and had the powers that they blessed opportunities. Right, and certainly we realize that you know, throughout this thing, you know, Daniel, you know, they’ve been praying God, they’re they’re following God, and obviously there’s gonna be a door open in a moment that we’re gonna see. But yeah, was this fair? Well, A, he’s the king. I mean, you know, we’re talking about a king in this powerful nation. You know, he certainly got that ability that right. You know, if he says this, it happens. Which is to me a little bit interesting considering uh that um Babylonians had a code of law, but um, and perhaps were even considered just. Um, but he, you know, was it fair? Yeah, if they claim to have all these powers, you know, they’re claiming these whatever they’ve uh, you know, prophecies or whatever, interpreting different things and different signs, then yeah.

You know, seems like a fair test to ask one to be able to prove themselves before he does. And perhaps, you know, this is even kind of wise on his part to propose such a test, you know. You know? Because let’s see what verse. Verse 8. Uh let’s uh somebody read for you. Verses uh 8 through 8 through 11. Go on. The king replied, I know for certain that you’re bargaining for time, in as much as you have seen the command from me as firm. That if you do not make the dream known to me, there is only one decree for you, for you have agreed together to speak lying and corrupt words before me until the situation is changed. Therefore, tell me the dream that I may know that you can declare to me its interpretation.

Chaldeans answered the king and said, There’s not a man on earth who could declare the matter. For the king, as much as no Greek king or ruler has ever asked anything like this of any magician or conjurer or children.

Yeah.

So they admit that they couldn’t do this.

We’ve kind of already said it, but isn’t that kind of a problem? You know, for them to be saying, you know, we can’t do this and that it’s up to the gods. I mean, did aren’t they didn’t they speak? You know, these are people that supposedly, you know, um could tell all these things that you know, interpret things from from their gods or whatever, and yet they’re saying only the gods can tell you. Of course, what does that kind of open the door for too later on? Yeah, exactly. Daniel with the one true God. And so, in verse 12, the king was angry and very furious and gave the command to destroy all the wise men of Babylon. So the decree went out and they began killing the wise men, and they sought Daniel and his companions to kill them.

So apparently, you know, they were at that point with their train to be part of these wise men. Okay. So he gives this order out of anger. You know, obviously the stream’s been troubling him, he hasn’t been able to sleep. You know, he told him what would happen, and now, you know, he’s having to go through with it, or he is going through with it. Um I think that’s worth noting is in verse 9. For you have agreed to speak lying corrupt words before me until the time is changed. So what was he basically saying there?

2. Daniel Prayed and Gives Thanks

Yeah, you’re lying to me, you’re trying to buy time. Yeah, you’re just gonna, you know, maybe I’ll cool down, maybe things will change or something more important will come up, and then I won’t have won’t remember this, and you know, we’ll go on about it. But obviously that wasn’t the case. Obviously, this had a greater purpose and was and Babka’s renewed it. Okay, so Daniel hears of this decree. Uh see, verse 14. So he asked, he asked, uh he asked in verse 15, you know, why is this decree so important? And it was made known to them. So Daniel went in and asked the king to give him time, he might tell the king the interpretation. And then he goes to his house and tells the others.

Um, so apparently the king did give him time. Why would the king give Daniel time to go back and figure something out?

Why wouldn’t he give him a chance? He spoke up and said he could tell him. Well, yeah, and um, you know, this is apparent little layer, you know. And that’s I think perhaps the biggest thing is you know, he’s somebody comes up to you and says, Hey, um, well, and says, you know, I might be able to help, you know, let me go back and you know, pray about it, or whatever he said, and we’ll um see if we can’t answer this. So obviously, you know, some he’s pretty much perhaps lost all hope at this point. You know, he’s got the point where he’s just saying kill these wise men, he’s angry, he doesn’t know what’s gonna happen, you know, but it’s still apparently bothering him.

Um perhaps uh he had cooled down a little bit. Maybe it um seems like he was uh pretty furious at the time, but perhaps he’d cool off a little bit. Um perhaps something in chapter one. What was what was different about Daniel and his companions that we’ve already that we mentioned a few minutes ago? Well, he found Daniel and his companions ten times better than the others, and it seemed as if this first interaction, Daniel wasn’t involved. So he had already examined Daniel and found them to be ten times better than Daniel comes in and says, he was a little time because he was more willing to do that. Yeah, perhaps that had something to do as well. If he’s, you know, been seen as you know wiser than these others, perhaps that had something to it as well.

That um that okay, well, you know, he he did seem pretty smart. Let’s let’s give him a chance. Um, and when you’re hopeless, I mean, let’s try something else and see what happens.

He wasn’t haughty. It says how he went to the captain. He went with discretion. And the others were a little bit rude when they were speaking to Nebuchadnezzar. They almost challenged him. Yeah, and I think that’s a good point as well. Is um that if Daniel goes in there with this, and you know, apparently they’re like, Well, they just kept saying, Give us, you know, give us the dream, give us the dream. Well, and we’ll and we’ll do this. You know, we can’t, it can’t be done, it can’t be done. And then if Daniel comes in there and says, Well, you know, let me see if I can’t do it, but I need a little time. You know, you’re right, I think there was a different attitude.

I’m sure there was a little bit of a different attitude with these. And um, I don’t know, perhaps they were bluffing, I’m not sure, thinking that he wouldn’t go through it. I mean, with this king, I don’t think anybody would doubt that he would do whatever he said he was going to do.

Okay, so verses 16 through 23. Um, somebody else uh read for us, 16 through 23, please. So then he went in and asked the king to give him time that he might tell the king the interpretation. Then Daniel went to his house and made the decision known to Hananiah, Meshael, and Azariah, his companions, that they might seek mercy from the God of heaven concerning this secret, so that Daniel and his companions might not perish with the rest of the wise men of Babylon. Then the secret was revealed to Daniel in the night vision. So Daniel blessed the God of heaven. Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God forever and ever. For wisdom and might are his, and he changes the times and the seasons.

He relieves kings and raises up kings. He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding.

I thank you and praise you, O God of my fathers. You have given me wisdom and might, and have now made known to me what we asked of you. For you have made known to us the kings to man. So we see that uh verse 18 that they might seek mercies from God. And the secret was revealed to Daniel in a night vision. So this is the secret was revealed to them. And here we can see, you know, God’s working through Daniel to reveal this to him. And they think it’s interesting that they were seeking mercy, realizing what was going to happen to them too, because they were right there in line too being considered as part of the wise men. And also think it’s worth knowing that Daniel prayed and gives thanks.

You know, here their back is up against the wall. There’s he, you know, who knows one of the kings going to get upset and say, Oh, that’s enough time, go find that guy, you know, bring him in here, drag him in here. You know, I’m done with this. You know, I I gave him a chance, you know, it’s been too long, whatever. And yet they take the time to pray to God, and granting right there from the prayer, realizing that this was coming from God, that God was giving them the wisdom, that God was giving uh this and praising God and thanking him. And you know, how easy could it be, you know, when you’re in you know a tough situation, not anything like perhaps like our backup like that, being drugging by a king or potentially being you know, headlopped off or something, but you know how easy it’s for we had prayer answer to just you know say, oh thanks God and on to the next thing.

Appreciate that, you know, and kind of just going on about it, but he you know that’s one of the things that you know I think sometimes looking at prayers in the Bible, how different is perhaps I know that I prayed, you know. I mean, they they give these ornate prayers, you know, and just really, and it’s not like it was you know fanciful words or anything. I mean, I think this was you know heartfelt that this was you know just the way it was. And we know that from that prayer was obviously important in these per people’s lives. So that’s always interesting to me sometimes to look at the prayers that they were prayed, uh particularly in these tough situations they were faced with.

We have not read of any time where Daniel interpreted dreams before. But at least from verse 17 of chapter one, which says, as for these four young men, God gave them knowledge and skill in all of you and wisdom, and Daniel had understanding, you know, visions and dreams. It’s something Daniel perhaps had done before. So when you approach the king, even though he was on blood audio, asking by failing that it would be obedient to him. Certainly, and and obviously God had already helped them through this one thing already, this one test they had been through with obviously with confidence that it would work out. So I don’t think you’re drive. I mean, I hadn’t made that connection, but yeah, it’s certainly possible that was already there.

Okay. I think I think what’s so notable about Daniel was his humility. And it um I think it’s important that we recognize sometimes when we do things, you you know, we like to say, you know, look what I’ve done. You know, there’s a lot of that kind of attitude, particularly in today’s society. You know, I did it, not giving credit that God gave us the ability to be able to do the thing that we did. And he obviously he demonstrated that, that he made sure that it was known that it was not he, the abilities that I did. And he acknowledged that too, right? That these things that God did. Yeah, we’ll get that here in just a moment as well. Um and going to your point, kind of skipping ahead just a few verses, um, but uh we’ll get to it in just a moment.

3. A God in Heaven Who Reveals Secrets

Uh so Daniel goes in and you know tells the king, don’t destroy the wise men, you know. I will tell the king the interpretation in verse uh 24. And and he’s I’m sorry, he tells this to uh um Ariak who is the one who has been appointed to destroy the wise men. So he’s actually so he goes up to the executioner, basically, the person who’s executing this order, um, and says, Hey, don’t tell him tell him wait on this. We can I can tell. So it tells in verse 25 that Ariel quickly brought Daniel before the king and said to him, I have found a man of the captains of Judah who will make known to the king the interpretation. Um perhaps reminding him who this guy was, you know.

And of course, the king asked him, you know, are you able to make known to me the stream which I’ve seen in its interpretation? And going to your thing, this next couple of verses, Daniel answered in the presence of the king and said, The secret which the king has demanded, the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, and the soothsayers cannot declare to the king. But there is a God in heaven who reveals secrets, and he has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will be in the latter days. Your dream, your dream and the visions of your head upon your bed were these. And it goes into this into the um description. Let me see. We’ll go in another couple of verses.

And he who reveals secrets has made known to you what will be. But as for me, the secret has not been revealed to me because I have more wisdom than anyone living. But our sakes, but for our sakes, who make known the interpretation of the king, and that you may know the thoughts of your heart. So like you say, he’s contributing this to God. He’s not taking any credit for this, even though you know Daniel was apparently and his companions were apparently wise, had understanding, yet he gives credit to God and makes it clear that it’s that Daniel’s just sort of the mouthpiece here. So before we get into the actual dream, the interpretation for a moment. Um, you know, when we look at symbolism of the Bible, and we’re trying to understand, you know, sense the Bible as a whole, you know, there’s some things that we have to kind of keep in mind or that I think are kind of, I guess, say sort of tips for helping us to understand, or when we’re trying to look at this, because I think later on, some of these things are gonna be really kind of we’re gonna have some, you know, I don’t know if weird strip thing, but some sort of wild imagery that we’re gonna be looking at and trying to figure out, you know, what does this mean?

4. Let the Scripture Speak

Um, and if you were in the Ezekiel class, we got to start with that very first chapter, um, you know, wheels and eyes, and you know, so when we’re looking at this, you know, we’ve got to kind of um before we get too far, I think it’s important to kind of perhaps set some ground rules, so to speak. Um, first of all, perhaps the you know obvious one, or hopefully it’s obvious to us, you know, let the scripture speak. Um let them define themselves using the context. You know, if um if a scripture says, you know, you know, and I saw this and it’s and then we’re told later it’s symbolized, you know, this is what it means, you know, we don’t, you know, obviously we shouldn’t go off and say, well it means this instead.

If the scripture’s defining itself, or if it’s giving us some context to allow us to help us to understand it, we should use that. Um obviously looking at the story as the Bible a whole often helps us as well. Um and not just focusing on one little piece that goes along with context. Um this is something that we talked about in the Ezekiel class, the strawberry mentioned was we should try if something’s when we’re reading through it, we shouldn’t just wildly go off and say something symbolic when it’s obvious and literal. You know, we should you know if that would kind of be like you know, you know, going in here and saying, Well, you know, there never was a King Nebuchadnezzar, there was Daniel. You know, if you start going off and um trying to, you know put it where it’s not there, where it’s obviously the case that it’s meant to be some a story or something literal, then we should try to go with that.

But you know, sometimes some things just can’t possibly fit. Um if I said, you know, um, you know, a thousand people came through this story the exact same time or said I saw I had a dream or something, and it was a thousand people coming through the store at the exact same time, shoulder to shoulder. Well, how is that gonna fit? You know, there may be something more to it than what I’m saying. And this actually kind of ties in, and hopefully that’s that may not be the best uh comparison, but we’ll actually get into some of the passage. Um place requirements that aren’t there. And this will actually this will come out with this one when we look at perhaps another views of it. You know, if I say, you know, a thousand people have walked through the door, and that’s all I said, a thousand people walked through that door.

Well, you can’t put on the regulation that they walked through the door, you know, you know, side by side or something, because I didn’t say that. It’s a requirement you’re adding on that maybe wasn’t in my actual statement. So what uh so somebody just tell what give me a uh short description of what the vision was that we see in this pastor. What did he see?

Okay, short. Well, right? So it’s a tall statue.

5. The Statue and the Stone

Well, okay, so what were the what were the components of the statue and what happened to the statue? Head of gold. Fine gold. Okay. Shoulders of silver. Iron belly bronze. Okay. Legs of iron. Legs of iron. What were the feet? Iron and clay. Okay. So here’s a uh picture trying to attempt to show you know what this thing might look like. Obviously, we have no idea, but and that’s why it’s probably kind of uh rought out something that he saw. So we see these different parts of this. And I’ll just pop this all up at once. We’re told right there in the actual passage, um, in verse uh 39, or I’m sorry, verse. I don’t have no reason I have to look back at the thing.

Um verse 38, uh well, let’s read 37 and 38. You, O king are a king of kings, for the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength, and glory. And wherever the children of men dwell, or the beasts of the field and the birds of heaven, he has given them to into your hand and has made you ruler over all of them. You are this head of gold. So from the actual passage, we know at least what one of these was right from here because it tells us he was the head of gold. And going into context, and this was discussed in the uh in your workbook, but the next part, the Medo-Persian Empire. Um that was the next great empire. We see that even within here, that that was the next one up after Babylon.

But when we go into some of the other visions, this will also help us clarify this when we’re talking about other uh kingdoms. Bronze, the Greek Empire.

And the fourth kingdom, you know, as we say, the legs of iron, the Roman Empire. And this feet and toes of iron and clay, a mixture of uh clay and iron. One of the things about the Roman Empire was, you know, they there was always this mix of different uh countries within it, and even within the Roman legions at some point in their history, perhaps later on than what we’re talking about, um eventually was mixture of all these different nations within them, and there really wasn’t the greatest cohesion between all these. One thing that uh I can’t remember if it’s mentioned in the workbook or somewhere else, but the it mentioned specifically the toes, and some people make something out of that because of the ten because of ten toes.

It’s not mentioned here. There are some things that or we’ll talk about ten layer and ten kings later on in the book, but right here that’s not actually specifically mentioned, and therefore I think that trying to read anything else into that, um, you know, it’s going a little too far for this, at least within the context of this passage. Um so we’ve got this, he sees this vision of the statue. Uh, and what happens to it? That’s going to game from an older stone cable from lance. Shot in its feet. It fell. Felt and shaped in the feet. Yeah, let’s uh read verse in this here. Verse 34. You watch while stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay and broke them in pieces.

The iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors. The wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found. And the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth. Okay. So what was the stone? What was the stone that struck the statue? Cornerstone. Cornerstone. Chief cornerstone. Okay. Keep on. Jesus. Yeah. So obviously this one was cut out without hands and um struck the feet and grew into a large into a mountain. So obviously there’s something a little different here. It’s not part of the statue. It’s not part of this statue of these different things. It’s something that’s it’s something very different, and we’ll get into that later, hopefully, if we have time.

Some of these keep things that you know it was called out. It’s not a human kingdom insofar as you know, it’s not like these other ones. It’s obviously something different. It’s not gonna be knocked down. It’s something that’s gonna remain. Okay. As we uh Mark chapter 9 uh pointed, this kingdom came with power that we’re talking about. Christ is sits on throne, and Christ was made head over all things. So once again, we’re looking at the Bible as a whole or to see you know what could this be in. Would you say that uh um that there was power in in God’s kingdom even when it struck the uh statue, so to speak? You know, um when did when did it get started? Got hints on the board of the passages, but when did this when does this strike?

When was this uh kingdom started? Well true in a sense when it’s when did it hit the Roman Empire, we might say?

Yeah. When Christ was crucified on the day of Pentecost, I mean that seems like a pretty powerful thing. Um you could say that John the Baptist came preparing the way. And it came with great power because Jesus is following behind him, fulfilling what John said, and working miracles.

So this is a great demonstration of power even before Christ dies on the cross. Yeah. And as we’ll see in a moment, it’s pretty important to consider that this was a very powerful thing, and that this was like I said, very different from these others. And would you say that um that you know Christianity that it was a mountain that it’s grown since that time? Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. Well where is the uh Roman Empire now? Rome. Yeah, it’s history. You know, yes, there is a city of Rome, and there is Italy, but this is not the Roman Empire. Um it broke down a long time ago. It so it didn’t last forever. No, did I mean did any of these last? I mean, how how are these kingdoms present?

Do we still have a um Grecian Empire the way they did back then when Alexander was going around, you know, going you know, all over the known world out to Italy? I mean you know, um all the way out to uh um India and wherever else he went? Is that empire still remain? No. Okay, what about the Medo Persian Empire? No. Outside of the uh Bible or your ancient history class, you know, how do you know about the Medo Persian Empire? Do you is that something you talked about? You know, the um global economics and the Medo-Persian Empire today? No. No. Okay. And and the Babylonian Empire, what about them? How many of ancient history group? Yeah, their ancient history. Something uh that I thought about if I can find the right verse.

Um verse 39. Um after Babylon, it says, after you shall arise another kingdom, inferior than another, a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over the whole earth. Um Persian Empire was a very strong, very powerful empire. You know, how are they inferior to Babylon? I mean, since it was inferior, how could that be? Well, the the verse even before when he says Radiah’s getting your kingdom fallen strength. I mean, and more of uh and where of the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field. Maybe you can either had Paula like wasn’t ever seen before. Um when you you you’ve gone through Ezekiel and we saw all the other nations were were placed on the Bible and he he had total power. Um maybe in terms of the the area that was covered is not as big as maybe what the Syria did Syria had, but Nabukanaza was just unique in the amount of power that he had.

Um the media version they had they had a lot of colour too, but not as much as what he had. But I guess why is the key to that in spite of all that when that stone that that stone that hit that statue, God was gonna set up his kingdom, and it wasn’t gonna it’s it’s not gonna be like anything that you have seen before. Babylon is gone, media Persian is gone, division is gone even Rome, but God’s kingdom is like a mountain still going.

And I’m I play devil double F a little bit whenever I read some of these different things because um also in our discussions, sometimes you know a lot of people don’t view things like we do. And this is one of the things that I actually brought up, not not necessarily with a good answer uh in opposition to this, but um you know, this these massive empires, you know, how could they be inferior? Well, how how do we gauge strength in a nation? Is it just purely military power? Economic power economic power, how about the nation of both? Yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of different ways you can you can consider it. And the Babylonian Empire, ever heard of uh Hammurabi’s code of laws? I mean, Babylonian Empire had there was other aspects in which they were um strong as well, it’s not just purely their military power, um, and of course, you know, that perhaps is a bit of a you know side note to the greater message of this passage, but I did want to bring it up because uh some of the things I’ve read people you know contesting things in Daniel.

Okay.

About some of the uh some other issues that people have raised for this past. But let’s go ahead and uh finish out the first the last few verses of this. Um may read verses 46 and 49. Then Nebuchadnezzar fell on his face, prostitute before Daniel, and commanded that they should present an offering and an incense to him. The king answered Daniel and said, Truly your God is the God of gods, Lord of kings, and a reveal of secrets, since you’ve revealed this secret. Then the king Rumul did Daniel and gave him many gifts, many good gifts, and he made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon, and they chief administrator over all the wise men of Babylon. Also, Daniel conditioned the king, and he said, Shadrach Meshet, and Abedney go over the affairs of the province of Babylon.

But Daniel sat in the gate of the king. Um I think uh we know you think uh Nebuchadnezzar was uh you know converting over to Judaism at this point and saying, you know, get rid of all the statues, get rid of all the all the stuff. You know, you know, because I mean he says, you know, truly your God is the God of gods. But that was not incompatible with his beliefs. Uh the quote that I put up on the um overhead on uh last Sunday, I think it was, the quote that was to be read yearly about Marduk referred to him as Lord of Kings. You know, you should see that same phrase here. But yet Marduk, even among them, was not considered the only God.

They held a number of gods, they believed in.

So Daniel and these others are set up uh sort of raised up into another position after this point, based upon this. Um keep hitting it, but I’ll hit it one more time. Uh so you think that uh there was anything uh behind the scenes going on? Perhaps uh some divine intervention, perhaps going on with this whole thing? Oh, absolutely. You know, God was anything. I’m sorry, God uh had told them, he said, go to Babylon for your own good, and I will protect you there. Uh God has spoken to kings before in dreams. And given them to me. He spoke to Abimelech uh when uh Abimelech had taken Abraham’s wife, uh, not knowing that she was married, because Abraham had said he was her brother. God spoke to kings and told them the meetings in the past.

Why, in this one case, did he not tell them anything? Well, I think clearly, for the good of his people, he arranged for Daniel to give this dream so that his people would have the protection of the king. This was for his the good of his people, and as a witness to all the nations, who really is the God of gods, the Lord of Kings. Yeah. And we and we’ve seen throughout, especially been in the other classes, you know, kings and God using the different kings and nations passing, you know, it seems just like you know, normal, you know, passing world events, but obviously there’s something more going on. Um before I get into some things about the visions and the interpretation stuff and kind of backtrack, is there any questions about anything, anything else anybody wants to bring up us about the actual uh text what we’ve looked at so far?

Okay.

6. Views That Don’t Fit the Context

Um, you know, it’s kind of interesting, and I was actually talking about this studying with a couple other people um Friday morning. Um the guys have been starting to read Daniel Badge’s background and some different views on Daniel. And you know, it’s funny how you know, you know, when you’re a kid or whatever, you know, it’s almost like Daniel’s six chapters, really. You know, there’s so much more to this, and even while so within, before we even get that far, there’s some different views, and people will try to make these things fit some other view they’re have, or some view they’ve come up with, and so that’s kind of what I want to look at. This we’ve got our you know, little image there that this vision these thing.

Um view uh puts forward that yeah, but we’ll agree with you on these first all the way down to the legs of iron. Then some would say, well, uh, this feet of iron and clay, that that that’s not you know, that’s not part of the Roman Empire, that’s something totally different. This has got to be um World War II Germany, or it’s got to be the EU. I think you is one that I saw some people like that’s kind of a little bit vogue now because they say, Well, there’s this conglomeration of nations, and they’re really because they’re really kind of from the Roman Empire, it’s all the culture that came out of that, and it’s a concongation, they’re gonna become this, you know, world empire or whatever they’re gonna become.

Um, there’s probably a dozen different ones they picked, but I think that was one of the ones that seems like kind of in vogue right now to use. Well, I kind of have a lot of problems with that, um, just practically speaking. Um, is the EU part of the Roman Empire? Did they come directly out of the Roman Empire? No. I mean, how how far apart was the European Union from the Roman Empire? I didn’t, I mean, I mean, what, thousands of years or something? It’s kind of the same location, I think they’re using that. Yeah, um, and of course, you know, they were probably you know, Germany was probably in vogue back then because they were an empire and it looked like they were going to take over the whole world at one point or something, but you know, we can move forward.

But the other thing is, okay, we got legs of iron. What do we have down here in the feet? Iron iron and clay. So, why is this iron so different from this? Well, that empire was able to dominate the whole world, uh, whereas Rome, the Romans, they conquered it, but they never did a similate the different nationalities into their culture and their religion. Yeah, and if you look um was not strong and it was weak within corruption and yeah, certainly. Um so you know, just because the connection these do I have trouble obsoletizing. And the other thing is, okay, you’ve got these empires were basically back to back, right? I mean, you had the metapersian empire kind of and so on. These things were, you know, um were close to one another.

Why is there you know that big of a gap in these suddenly? Um you know, it seems like that doesn’t kind of fit how quickly some of these were going together. Um briefly, uh, some other things. Some will say also that the stone isn’t the church, isn’t it? It isn’t God’s kingdom, it’s something different. Uh they’ll say because the church wasn’t supernaturally formed. The stone was cut out, obviously there’s some supernatural power involved, in that right. I mean, we’re talking we says you know, cut out without hands. Well, okay, we already talked about it, but okay, wasn’t there’s something supernatural about a guy raising from the rising from the dead, or people speaking in tongues that you know were fishermen and didn’t have been trained in that?

I don’t see how you can say that there wasn’t supernatural power involved when obviously there’s miracles and different things involved. Um they’ll say, well, a stone strikes at the end of history. It’s street tracking at least, see right there. It’s the end of history. You know? Well, of course that’s part of the problem why they can’t say Nazi Germany anymore, I guess. But um, so but does this passage say it’s the end of history? No. No, that’s what I was talking about, adding stuff that isn’t there. The passage doesn’t say it’s the end of history, it doesn’t give anything in there that would make you say this has to be the end of history. Um, and also I wonder why that, since the stone rises up and stays, that seems to be a little problem there.

It says the rise of the kingdom will be sudden. You know, well, okay, first of all, going back to these. Were these empires sudden? Did they suddenly pop up out of nowhere? One day, one day they’re there, one day they’re not. And I mean it took a little while, right? I mean, for even if you do say these. Um, so that’s kind of a problem anyway. And didn’t uh Christ kind of people weren’t really looking for him, right? It was kind of coming out of nowhere, and this all of a sudden you’ve got guys speaking in tongues and preaching something new. So even if you say, well, that was kind of subtle, well, that was kind of quick too, it got going pretty quick, 3,000 people, right?

And they’ll say, well, the stone can’t be spiritual. It can’t be some can’t be largely a spiritual kingdom, can’t be largely uh spiritual aspects because these weren’t you know uh what’s the problem with that? Probably a bunch.

What’s that? These are kingdoms of men, not kingdom of God. Yeah, within the passage, what I mean did did that um passage make it sound to you like that this stone was just another kingdom? If it’d been in our kingdom, why wouldn’t it be, you know, I don’t know, a pedestal below the other ones or something? You know, it’s something totally different. The passage makes it clear that they’re different. It’s card, you know, spiritual kingdom is separate. There’s um supernaturally formed, you know, there’s something more going on here.

Um the Mormons uh believe he had another one that the Roman Empire. This one I’m not sure if I even understand their logic necessarily. Um but I’ve got a quote here I think from one of their writers, or I think I quoted from somebody who quoted from one of their writers, um, that this stone rose up um uh yeah, the defeat were the European kingdoms it in the 1800s, this being for EU, um, and that believed that stone that rose up was um um yeah, the stone was when the church latter-day saints formed. Um and I didn’t realize until I was researching for Daniel that they even took this stance that it was even part of their thing, but it’s kind of key because um because it allows them to kind of say, well, see the church started with um that stone was a church, and that’s what rose up, and that’s what’s gonna remain.

So it’s almost like they’re trying to restart, but it doesn’t fit the context. Once again, 1830s, I don’t think you know that there was any kind of you know, Roman Empire. Matter of fact, I should have looked at my world history a little better, but that would have been what maybe Austro-Hungarian might try to remember. But um, yeah, point is it can’t be that. Um you know, this grew up, this does not fit the context of the others ones for some of the same reasons where I looked at. And how did that strike the European tribes and break it apart? Yeah, very good point. Yeah, I don’t see how that really struck and kind of grew up how it struck it at all really. Um I don’t know when it got a foothold in Europe.

Um that belief did, I so but either way, I don’t think it’s uh you know, any kind of obviously hitting the other one. Uh sick. Well all these other kingdoms literally ruined the world. Yeah. And the only thing close that came to ruin the world after that was the British Empire. Mm-hmm. And so and I I think that’s a fair good point too, that you know, all these that we’re talking about, European Union or these other ones, um, don’t fit that criteria as well. Thank you very much. Um do great.